Client Interviewing skills take students all the way to Poland
Legal competitions are a time-honoured practice for students at Te Kauhanganui Tātai Ture―Faculty of Law. These events, organised by the Victoria University of Wellington Law Students’ Society (VUWLSS) and other student representative groups, are often supported by generous donors, law firms, associations, and the Judiciary. They provide invaluable opportunities for our students to hone their legal skills and are fertile ground for aspiring lawyers to master the art of mooting, client interviewing, negotiation, or witness examination.
This year, V.Alum had the pleasure of speaking with two impressive fourth-year law students, Isla Clarkson and Jimmy Fiso, who were crowned 2023 champions at the annual International Client Consultation Competition (ICCC) national qualifying competition run by the New Zealand Law Students’ Association (NZSLA).
They were invited to represent New Zealand at the 2024 Brown-Mosten International Client Consultation Competition (BMICCC), held at John Paul II Catholic University of Lublin in Poland.
2024 has been a busy year for you both since winning the client interviewing crown. Tell us more.
Jimmy: This year has been an incredible journey for us in client interviewing―we’ve had the privilege to compete in four competitions, against more than 50 teams, across three countries, collecting three awards along the way.
Isla: Client interviewing competitions require a team of two to act as solicitors conducting an initial consultation with a prospective client (played by an actor with a detailed character profile). The team has 45 minutes to build a rapport with the client and gather essential information to provide preliminary advice. The competition is designed to simulate a real lawyer–client interview, with teams assessed against specific criteria.
Tell us about the 2024 BMICCC in Poland—how did you prepare?
Isla: The competition focused on international humanitarian law. We tackled complex issues such as reporting war crimes, managing objectionable material, immigration and asylum concerns, and the challenges of cyber warfare.
Since we were already travelling halfway around the world to Poland, we took the opportunity to visit the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague to learn firsthand about the international criminal process and how it relates to international humanitarian law. We also engaged in workshops and panels addressing how to discuss sensitive topics with individuals affected by war and severe trauma.
Jimmy: I would say that a big highlight of our preparation was receiving special training from the Hon. Phil Goff, New Zealand’s High Commissioner to the UK, and Alana Hudson, New Zealand’s Ambassador to Poland.
Phil Goff shared insights on diplomacy, emphasising the importance of optimism and understanding the person in front of you, even in difficult interactions—a perspective that has enriched our approach to building rapport with clients. Alana Hudson provided her perspective on the importance of understanding cultural context—especially when handling delicate topics like war trauma and asylum. Both meetings were invaluable in refining the interpersonal skills essential to the competition and the significance of empathy, adaptability, and communication skills with people from different walks of life.
How did you go in the competition?
Isla: While we were proud to represent Aotearoa New Zealand on the global stage at the BMICCC, we were disappointed not to progress through to the finals—we were knocked out by Scotland, the winners of the competition.
However, the experience was incredible. We forged so many friendships and connections with people from around the world and gained an appreciation for client-centred approaches to legal services that we look forward to carrying into our future careers.
And since your return?
Jimmy: We’ve been putting everything we learnt into practice! We won the 2024 regional client interviewing competition, received the Client Interviewing Spirit of the Competition Award at the Australian Law Students’ Association (ALSA) Annual Conference in Tasmania, and, most recently, proudly reclaimed the title of national client interviewing champions at the New Zealand Law Students’ Association (NZLSA) Annual Conference in Ōtautahi, Christchurch.
BMICCC 2025 in Scotland—here we come!
Isla: We both recognise that this journey would not have been possible without the unwavering support from the Faculty, alumni, VUWLSS, VUW clubs, and generous sponsors such as Kate Sheppard Chambers and other donors who wish to remain anonymous. They provided us with funding, training, and encouragement. We are so grateful.
Any other personal highlights this year?
Jimmy: Alongside my studies and client interviewing, three key moments stand out for me this year. As Co-President of the Pasifika Law Students’ Society (PLSS) with Shanay Talopau, I’ve had the privilege of supporting the growth of our Pasifika community at law school. In September, I visited Penn State Dickinson Law in the US, where I led a seminar on Pacific constitutions and a roundtable with student leaders on advocacy and representation in legal spaces. And as Co-Student Representative on Te Hunga Rōia Māori o Aotearoa (The Māori Law Society), I helped establish Tūmatakahuki, the National Māori Law Students’ Association. I’m honoured to continue as Co-President into 2025 and look forward to building on this mahi.
Isla: 2024 has been a rewarding year, with new experiences and opportunities for academic and personal growth. I’ve had the privilege of serving once again on the VUWLSS Executive, this time as Vice President (Administration)—a rewarding way to give back to the student community. I’ve also enjoyed exploring new areas of law through the honours programme. My dissertation examines cyberflashing and online harms, highlighting gaps in New Zealand’s Harmful Digital Communications Act in protecting women. I’m grateful to have received the 2024 Kate Sheppard Chambers Scholarship to support this research. On a personal note, I recently completed a valuable internship with the refugee and immigration team at Community Law. I’m now looking forward to starting a summer clerkship at Chapman Tripp to continue building my practical skills.
The Faculty of Law thanks the legal community and its generous donors for enabling students to represent Victoria University of Wellington at national and global law competitions.
If you wish to find out more about supporting our students, please contact our Senior Development Manager, Victoria Beckett at: Victoria.Beckett@vuw.ac.nz.
Te Kauhanganui Tātai Ture: Finding purpose through a shared community
This year, as always, my brilliant colleagues have produced world-leading research, taught over 2000 extraordinary students, and engaged widely to make Aotearoa and the world a better place. I know of no law school with fewer than 30 academic staff and as many students that manages such excellent teaching and research. Our equally amazing professional staff have done an extraordinary job in not just keeping things working but also making students’ lives just a little easier.
Our students are our future, and I tell them they are better versions of us—in some of the tough times this year, it is they who have helped us get through. I am constantly amazed at what our students get up to after they leave here, and just sometimes I like to claim a little bit of the credit that properly belongs to you!
But Tātai Ture is not just made up of those lucky enough to work or study here in the Old Government Buildings (OGB)—it is made up of all of you, wherever and whenever you get to read this.
We have decided to do V.Alum a bit differently so we can tell stories from within and from outside OGB. Please take a few minutes to read about our wonderful research, student leaders, and the achievements of some of our alumni.
The last couple of years have been unsettled for Te Herenga Waka, and I suspect that the next couple will be challenging for all our universities. The Law Faculty, however, has continued to be a thriving part of a university that is beginning to flourish again. We have five new academic staff who either have just started with us or will soon be here for us to nurture—emerging scholars in international trade, intellectual property, and comparative constitutional law; a leading mergers and acquisitions scholar from the US; and a new Professor of Public Health.
I am still getting used to working in the Dean’s office. Being Dean of the faculty that I have worked in for 30 years is a privilege and an honour but also, to be honest, a bit daunting. I have been amazed by all the goodwill and offers of help that I have received. I genuinely believe that despite the challenges 2025 will bring, we really can build an even better law school for our community. Priorities for next year include emphasising our links with the main University, joining with our friends across Bunny Street in Wellington School of Business and Government to create a unique Pipitea experience at the heart of our capital, emphasising the ‘place-based’ experience of learning law at VUW, and working to raise Pasifika achievement. Next year also is the first year of the new integrated tikanga curriculum that all students will study—we can’t wait to get started.
If we can do all this, it will be in no small part due to the tireless work of my predecessor, Lee Godden, who worked harder than any person I have ever known at the Law School. Lee had to return to Australia in August to care for whānau, but not before she had secured the funding for our new appointments.
It is summer, at least for those in Aotearoa. Just before Christmas, I will be in one of my happy places, Fiordland, walking the Kepler Track with my best man (whom I met in second-year law) and his family. On my to-do list are reading all the books that I missed out on during the year, fighting the ivy in our garden, and mostly just sitting in the sun—which is guaranteed this Wellington summer. I hope to finally make it in February to the top of Angelus Peak in Nelson Lakes. I also plan to catch up on some of my colleagues’ excellent research (really truly!)—you should too! Pick something from the list—it is all great.
One book I’m currently learning a lot from is Zest, written by my old torts student Daniel Kalderimis KC, who courageously writes about his recovery from depression, with the help of not only psychology but also philosophy. Daniel’s book is not so much about how to do law but is a lot about how we should choose to be more purposeful in those things that give us meaning. Daniel reminds me, though, that law is all about the narratives that connect people. Outside my family and friends, it has also been this university and our shared law community that have given me a sense of purpose and meaning. So I can’t wait for 2025.
Whiti te rā
Geoff